Thomas Hardy
Imagine yourself being a lively, vibrant young person stuck with a bunch of hicks in an insular location where nothing ever happens. (It may not be that big a stretch.) What can you do to amuse yourself? What would you do to get out?
The Return of the Native is a traditional 19th century novel by one of the great English novelists, Thomas Hardy. You’ll find that it’s kind of slow-paced for our tastes. But stick with it. The characters are interesting, and the situations they find themselves in are compelling. Hardy liked to subject his characters to the vagaries of fate, and that is certainly in evidence in The Return of the Native.
Warning: this book starts off slow. Real slow. It's a loving description of Egdon Heath, the setting for this novel. (The chapter gives you some idea of what it feels like for Eustacia to have to live there.)
Try to get through it. The heath is an important character in the novel. But, rest assured, the whole book is not like this. Once we start getting into characters, and especially plot, you'll like it. However, if -- and only if -- you would find yourself giving up on Hardy, (or starting to consider alternative paths), you have my permission to skip ahead. Try a paragraph or two, or to the end of the chapter if need be. But then start in again. Stick with it. You'll be glad you did.
Looking into my crystal ball, I foresee that this will be the least popular of the summer reading books. Well, tough. I believe that a lot of AP teachers create their summer reading lists for their colleagues rather than their students ("See what my students are reading!"). I don't do that. This is the most traditional of the summer reading books. It's a good novel, historically important, and something you should be capable of at least bulling your way through, if not enjoying.
For what it's worth, I read it first when I was a senior in high school, and I loved it. (Holden Caulfield even likes Eustacia, and he hates everything!)
Ok, so I guess I will be the first one to post. I hope I don't do it wrong.
ReplyDeleteI just finished reading the first part of The Return of the Native. I have to agree that the first half of that section was very very slow. The author clearly admires the heath and all of its intricacies. It took me quite a while to get through that part. You definitely have to take it in small doses. The second half was a stark contrast to the first. The numerous love triangles that begin to surface make it a little bit more interesting. As of right now, I predict that Eustacia and Clym will become an item, leaving Wildeve without the affections of her or Thomasin. I don't think that Thomasin will fall in love the reddleman though. I guess that's it for now...I'm not sure if there is something else I should add. I wish everyone good luck when they read the first part of the book...
Cristina Macklem
Thank you, Cristina. I'm proud to announce that you are this year's winner of the coveted "Early Bird Award". (Be sure to ask for your worms when you get to class.)
ReplyDeleteNow, for the rest of you sluggards -- let's reader up!
Cool! Thanks. So I finished the book a couple of days ago, and while the ending was exciting, I thought Clym's ultimate fate was very disappointing since he is "the native" that the title refers to. I also would like to say that I prefer the ending where Thomasin marries Venn even though it is not the ending that Hardy intended. I think this happy ending for Thomasin provides a good contrast to Clym's unfortunate ending. If it weren't for that shred of happiness at the end, it would have made an already tedious book very unsatisfying. Even so, the last half of the book was much more interesting than the first half, and I appreciated the faster pace towards the end.
ReplyDeleteCristina Macklem
I'm slow as it is, but I think this book is making me read even slower. I totally agree with Cristina about the tangle of love triangles! All the different relationships make the plot interesting despite all the extra descriptions about nature and physical traits of characters. Personally, I hope Eustacia finds love. I feel bad for her because she lives with her grandfather and seems desperate. I'm excited to see how it ends!
ReplyDeleteP.S. I thought I blogged before but I don't know where it went, so if I blogged in the wrong spot I apologize.
This is my last book to read, and I am only on the 2nd chapter. But for the first chapter, it took really long to read. I had to go over what I read to actually understand it. I am also a slow reader and I am already not looking forward to the rest.
ReplyDeleteOk everyone, once you get to actual characters and dialog, the story is easier to understand. I know the first part is painful, when reading about the forest scenery, but just after that is the characters and speaking. So, just a heads ups for whoever gave up reading after the second page, it gets a little better soon.
ReplyDeleteThis book was frustrating to say the least, but I still enjoyed all the drama that unfolded.
ReplyDeleteI take back what I said before about wanting Eustacia to find love. She had a wonderful husband and she ruined their marriage! Clym provided her with a stable home and the proper resources to live peacefully together, but it wasn't enough for Eustacia. I think she did love Clym in the beginning, though changed her mind when she realized he did not intend to take her to Paris. I was frustrated by the fact that Damon Wildeve continually returned to her, mainly because he was not supposed to have her. He snuck out away from his wife and child to meet her when she had cast him aside! Eustacia didn't deserve the attention he gave her, and Wildeve didn't deserve such an understanding wife as Thomasin. In my opinion, the unfaithful characters got what they deserved. Venting about books is a lot more fun than I thought!
ReplyDeleteAnd as for the ending, I was glad to see that the reddleman and Thomasin were happy because each deserved happiness. I was pulling for Diggory Venn. I feel like he was somewhat of a hero because he tried to help resolve problems between the Yeobrights and rushedcho to the rescue that night in the storm. I wish Clym had been happier by the end. He was a good man regardless of what happened between him and his mother. Clym chose to do what he wanted in contrast to what people, such as his aunt, expected of him, and I think that is what gains him respect from all the readers that experience this story.
ReplyDeleteAnd I agree with Cristina regarding her comment about the change in pace. The faster pace for the second half of the novel helped me out a lot. I was able to stay much more engaged in the story.
ReplyDeleteI agree, Jess, that Hardy kind of makes you hate/love some of the characters. I liked that he did that because everyone has a "good" and a "bad" side, and by doing that, we got to see the characters' true colors in all situations. I think it made it very realistic and made the characters more believeable.
ReplyDeleteEven though these characters all had what seemed to be like a good/bad side, all of their actions were driven by their own characteristic trait. Eustacia's actions were driven by her need for adventure and distain for Egdon. This passion led to her happiest moments in the book during the courtship and early marriage between her and Clym and to her ultimate demise when she drowned after trying to escape Egdon with Wildeve. Thomasin's loyalty allowed her to preserve her relationship with her aunt even though she married someone that her aunt disapproved of, but this loyalty also bit her in the butt when her husband Wildeve left her for Eustacia.
Anyway, I just thought that was interesting how that worked out...
Cristina
Just started reading Return of the Native and I have to say I'm not hating it! I'll admit the beginning description was a little dense, but I suppose that it is important because it sets up the heath to be a character in and of itself. I've only just gotten to the part where we meet Thomasin and Wildeve, but I'm already finding myself interested in how their marriage is going to work out (judging by Wildeve's striking similarities to Aaron from Goldengrove, I'm guessing this relationship won't end well). I'm looking forward to reading more and I don't think this book is nearly as boring as people say.
ReplyDeleteI finally finished Return of the Native! The beginning was boring and confusing for me, and I reading the novel was grueling, but now looking back at the story, I actually really like it! Once the novel got into the dialogue and I understood which character was which and how they were all related, I got intrigued by all of the different story-lines and love triangles. I loved reading the end of the novel because it was full of action and very fast-paced.
ReplyDeleteI really liked that every character was multi-dimensional; although I liked some characters and I didn't like others, they all had both good and bad qualities with realistic motivation, which helped them seem very realistic. For example, even though I didn't like Eustacia because of her actions, I understood her motivation and at some times I felt bad for her. I must say though, I was very happy with her death. On the other hand, I liked Clym, but I felt he always got himself into bad situations, and sometimes I was frustrated with him because he didn't realize what was going on! I wish he could have ended up happier though. My favorite character was Diggory Venn. He was the only character that I felt had no flaws, so I was glad that he was the only character that got exactly what he wanted in the end!
I know that some people may be surprised that I feel this way, but I think that The Return of the Native was my favorite story. Of course, the beginning was really slow, and I agree with Ally, it was a bit dense. It was hard to me to picture the heath at first, but I think that the main purpose of this description was to get the emotional essence of the heath. For something that has been there for centuries, it was still such an incredibly dynamic place. I loved how it mirrored the moods of its inhabitants. However, I also think that the characters were dictated by the heath itself. There was a character that matched each facet of the heath. Eustacia was the drenching rain and gusty winds, and Clym was the hopeful sunshine and tweeting birds. I think both Jess and I were frustrated by Eustacia. I couldn’t tell if it was actual depression she was struggling in, or just being a drama queen. I didn’t think her situation was as bad as she thought. As Jess said, she had a wonderful loving husband who thought she was the world. I must say I was not surprised by the ending of her story; she was in a downwards spiral and her end was the only plausible path I felt the story could go down. I felt bad for Clym; he was such an optimistic and thoughtful individual, and I don’t think he deserved the tragedy that overtook his life. I loved Granfer Cantle! Everyone can relate to the somewhat crazy grandparent—I know I certainly can! My favorite character, like Michelle, was Diggory Venn. He had a heart of gold. I was so happy when he won back Thomasin and Clym’s inheritance. At the end of the story, where we got to pick our ending, I naturally picked the one where he got his Tamsie. I grew up on Disney and fairytale endings, and I was glad I could make this story have an ending like that. At Damon’s death, Hardy stated that he (Damon) was born for a higher destiny. That statement made me think that Hardy had some great respect for Damon; however, as the reader I was continuously disgraced by his actions and decisions. Overall, I must disagree with Cristina. I don’t think I ever fully hated a character. I believe Hardy gave each character enough aspects so that the reader couldn’t fully feel strongly against a character.
ReplyDeleteAlright, I'm getting going on this one, and wow the beginning is literally putting me to sleep. I tried to read some after work yesterday afternoon and actually fell asleep with it in my hands...can't wait for it to pick up. I feel like I'm sort of a slow reader as it is, and the lack of action certainly is not helping one bit! I'll trust you guys when you say it gets better.
ReplyDeleteCarolyn Sireci
I am currently about half way through reading Return of the Native and to me the story as a whole is like a soap opera. I find that the big tangle of love relationships is what creates this story and makes it enertaining. I agree with Jess and Katie how Eustacia can be an annoying character. her relationship with Wildeve is toxic too.
ReplyDeleteI'm also trying to determine who the "native" is. Any ideas anyone?
Meghan Pugliese
Meghan, the "native" is Clym; it says that somewhere in the story; I'm not sure where. It's also on the back cover. I was wondering for awhile too though! I love your comparison of it to a soap opera. I enjoyed watching the different relationships develop, but normally I wished it could have moved a little faster.
ReplyDeleteKatie, I like your description of the heath. It really shows how important the heath was, almost like a character the way it affected everybody and everything that happened.
I honestly liked this book. At the beginning I got a little tired of the slow pace, but as it got going I got really into it. I disagree with Cristina on hating any character, but at times, I did dislike Wildeve for being greedy and disloyal to many characters throughout this novel.
ReplyDeleteThomas Hardy did a very good job on describing what each individual person felt about living in Eddon Heath such as Eustacia's connection to loneliness when she is there. Clym loves the heath and finds comfort and the varying in their views is a foreshadow to future issues with their relationship.
Overall, I enjoyed this book and I liked it better than the other two.
-Kelsey Gallant
As a whole I enjoyed the plot because it was unpredictable. I prefer books like this with love triangles over books with 2 main characters that fall in love and live happily ever after, because it keeps my attention and keeps me playing out different scenerios in my head. Although I liked the book's overall plot, I didn't like the way it moved so slow. I agree with Michelle that it could've moved quicker.
ReplyDeleteKatie- I also felt bad for Clym. He literally lost everything- his sight, his wife, his mother, and his upscale life in Paris. I wonder what would've happened if he hadn't returned to his home- would he have lost his eyesight? I wonder if he had a chance to redo everything if he would stay in Paris?
I think that this book focused a lot on how love fades. It was shocking for me how quickly the strong love turned into boredom. It seemed like Wildeve and Eustacia couldn't settle with one person, and I saw this when Wildeve left Eustacia for Thomasin and then came back. It was harsh for me to witness how quickly Eustacia's strong love for Clym faded. It disappointed me that she married him partially to go to Paris, and I think that it was carma that he became a furze cutter that lost his eyesight. The only ones that stayed faithful to their love was Clym, Venn, and Thomasin. I think Venn was the most faithful to Thomasin, and I was happy that he eventually ended up with Thomasin. The death of Eustacia and Wildeve were defidently punishment for their unfaithfulness to their spouses. I thought this ending was fitting just because it basically solved the problems and ended the drama. It reminded me of 'Montana 1948' when Frank committed suicide, because his death made it easier on the family, and they didn't have to face the town. It also made it easier for Thomasin because she will never know for sure if Wildeve was really planning to run away with Eustacia for good.
I think that Clym's mother had a very strong personality. It got to a point that she was going overboard. I thought that it was very unfortunate for Eustacia that she didn't open the door for Clym's mother, and it showed that one little incident can change people's lives forever. It caused Clym's mother's death, and ended their marriage.
I just finished Return of the Native today; I had been reading it since my last post in July. 401 pages is not a large book for me, but reading this felt like wading through molasses. There were parts that went faster than others, specifically the dice game in Book Three, chapter 8 ("A New Force Disturbs the Current", pages 231-237), in which Venn wins back all the money intended for Thomasin from Wildeve. Actually, I found most of the parts that invovled Venn to be less tedious to read. He is described as "both a guardian angel and a jealous manipulator." Aside from some of his actions towards Eustacia in Book One, in which he confronted her about her stance between Thomasin and Wildeve (pages 93-97), not many of his actions seemed to me to be all that manipulative. In the same situation, I would do the same thing; take whatever actions within my power to protect the happiness of the girl I couldn't be close to.
ReplyDeleteAnother thing that confused me was Hardy's choice of chapter titles. His titles were often short summaries of the events of the following chapter (for example, Book Four, chapter two is titled "He Is Set Upon by Adversities, but He Sings a Song). I'm reminded of the original Winnie-the-Pooh books by A. A. Milne; his chapter titles always began with the words, "In Which" followed by a one-sentance summary of the outcome of the chapter. Is this common among British authors, or is this just a coincidence?
I did not dislike The Return of the Native; however, I am a fan of neither romance novels or historical fiction (or realistic fiction as it would have been when written.) It was a good book, but not the sort of thing I typically read, which may explain why I took so long to read it.
Matthew Shanks
I can't help but feel that Hardy's intended ending was by far the stronger, more consistent choice. He presented Venn as the guardian angel to Thomasin, but at the same time he made Venn a manipulative and borderline sociopathic character. Yes, he was at odds with Eustacia and Wildeve, who were by far the two most antagonistic characters in the novel, but the way in which he obsessed over Thomasin to the point of attempting to weed his way into her life and to dictate her fate was far from heroic. He acted on love, but only on love that was apparent to himself. He claimed self sacrifice, but his every action, from pushing for Eustacia to stay away, and later scaring Wildeve away from her, was all because he was consistently thinking of his love for Thomasin, a love which was not returned and would control her fate. From behind every good deed is someone looking to gain from it, Venn was willing to do anything it took, and affect anyone in his way, in order to determine the path in which Thomasin's life was to go. She did not love him until every option in her life was exhausted and every thing that Venn had pushed so hard for had crumbled. Selflessly loving someone is not wrong by its basic definition, but attempting to create a world built on artificial happiness and determined not by fate but by processed decision, is completely and utterly against the way any person's life should unfold. Venn may have started on his course with the intention to help, but it was the good intention of an unstable mind, a mind that took a fleeting love and transformed it into something uncontrollable and dangerous. While it was nice having Thomasin happy at the end, one has to wonder if that happiness is spoiled at all by the methodically planned actions that created it.
ReplyDeleteJosh Cardella
Josh- I don't feel that Venn's actions were in any way sociopathic. He acted not to insinuate himself into her life, but to make sure she was happy in the life that she chose for herself. All he did was discourage Wildeve from actions that would have hurt Thomasin. He did not intend to physically hurt Wildeve (The pistol shot was only intended to scare him) and he did not in any way cause Wildeve's death. He also did not try to take advantage of Thomasin's emotional turmoil after Wildeve died; he waited about two years before meeting Thomasin and Yeobright again after Wildeve and Eustacia's deaths. Also (just to be nitpicky) he is nowhere near sociopathic. A sociopath cannot comprehend the emotion of other people; he sees them merely as playthings. If Venn was sociopathic, he would not have taken steps to preserve Thomasin's happiness; he wouldn't have cared if she was happy at all. If he took any action, the only benificiary would have been Venn himself. Also, I think the actions that he took proved his affections for Thomasin were a good deal more than "fleeting love."
ReplyDeleteMatthew Shanks
I actually enjoyed this book from the first page until the very end. It was my favorite of the three.
ReplyDeleteLike most of you said, the beginning was dense and I had to read it slowly to take it all in, but I love the way Hardy wrote. The words all flowed together so beautifully and I loved the way everything sounded in my head as I was reading.
Most of you said you didn't care too much for Eustacia, but for some reason I think she was my favorite character. I didn't like how she spoke to Clym after they were married, and she could be very demanding, but I think she just had a troubled soul. Most everyone who knew her associated her with darkness, and when everyone thinks that way of you, it's bound to get to you emotionally. I think the way people viewed Eustacia affected her very much, even if she herself did not notice.
I also liked Diggory Venn, but I wonder how differently things would have played out if he had just minded his own business. If he hadn't gambled with Damon and given all of the money he won to Thomasin, then neither Clym nor Thomasin would have received their share of the money, which news would have gotten back to Mrs. Yeobright, who then may never have asked Eustacia if she had been given money from Damon, and therefore there would have never been a fight between Mrs. Yeobright and Eustacia, in which case Eustacia and Clym may not have had a falling out and Mrs. Yeobright may not have died.
I definitely consider Diggory Venn to that of a guardian angel to Thomasin. He was always looking out for her and trying to keep her happy. I'm glad they ended up together in the end because he ended up happy too. I know you could choose which ending you wanted, but naturally, I went with the more romantic one.
ReplyDelete-Kelsey Gallant
Megan, I also recognized Eustacia's struggle. I thought that it was without a doubt difficult on her to be labeled as a witch and associated with darkness. It creeped me out when the little boy's mom made a voodoo doll of Eustacia. I know it was just the time period when women that were different/isolated were labeled harshly, however I don't think it was right and I defidently think it weathered on her soul.
ReplyDeleteKelsey, I like the way you called Venn Thomasin's guardian angel. He was always there for her and his love was unwavering. I liked the way he told Thomasin that he was looking for a woman's white glove after the May pole celebration. I thought it was sweet, and I liked the way Thomasin found out that it was her glove.
Taylor, that part creeped me out too!
ReplyDeleteDo you think her making the voodoo doll had something to do with Eustacia's death, or do you think it was just a coincidence and Eustacia decided to drown herself?
I finished Return of the Native this morning and I do see now how the "native" is Clym. I have to go with what said before on how his novel reminded me of a soap opera. The relationships were woven within one another which created the vibe that not one reltionship was true love. In fact, I feel that love itself was far removed from the equation of the relationships between Eustacia and Wildeve, Eustacia and Clym, and Wildeve and Thomasin. Diggory Venn was the character like in a soap opera, who always stuck his nose in everyone's business and had to be in the middle of all the drama and chaos.
ReplyDeleteMegan, when I finished the novel I personally suspected that Eustacia purposely drowned herself simply because she had turned depressed more than ever as she watch everything in her life unravel all at once. She wanted to escape the confrontation with Clym again and she probably felt deep down that she did not want to run away with Wildeve because she knew he is not the best man for her and he would no be motivated enough to provide well enough for her.
Meghan Pugliese
I have to agree with Matt and Josh that Venn was not the "golden hearted man" that Michelle and Katie make him out to be. I think that he acted out of jealousy towards Wildeve. His demeanor during the gambling scene was haughty to say the least, and as Matt said, he was also very manipulative. I also agree with Josh that his motives were not just for the benefit of Thomasin but for himself as well. While I am glad that he finally gets to marry Thomasin at the end of the book, I don't think that he was the perfectly innocent man that he tried to lead Thomasin to believe he was. I also agree with Josh that the more consistent ending would probably would have been for them not to marry, but I like happy endings...I'm biased.
ReplyDeleteAlso, in reference to my love/hate relationship. I was just using that phrase to help explain the frustration I felt towards some of the choices that the characters made and how those seemingly impulsive choices and charateristics contrast the beauty of moments like Clym and Eustacia at the beginning of their marriage. It made me upset that Eustacia would throw all of that happiness away, but I never really "hated" her as a character.
As Meghan pointed out, with one action removed from this book, the ending of the entire book is altered. I really liked that about this book. It shows just how intricately weaved all of the different plot lines were. It also makes you wonder about your own life. Where would you be if this hadn't happend? or Would you be the same person if that happened to you? It just goes to show how fragile and dynamic a life can be. One small thing can alter the course of your entire life...for better or for worse.
I'm not sure if Eustacia would drown herself. She was just about to run away with Wildeve, and start a life abroad like she had always wanted. Only if Wildeve had decided that he didn't want to leave with her would she consider doing something like that. We will never know, though, what really happened so I guess her drowning herself is plausible.
I have to disagree with Cristina and Josh--I don't think that Venn had bad or selfish intentions. He knew that Thomasin had to marry Wildeve, so that she could be happy and save her reputation. If he was selfish he wouldn't have talked to Eustacia about staying away from Wildeve, he would've taken advantage of the uncertain situation and convinced Wildeve to not marry Thomasin. After Thomasin's marriage, Venn left the heath and just lived his life without interfering with hers.
ReplyDeleteAlthough I did feel that Eustacia was kinda a whining brat, I do appreciate her sorrow and her feeling of being trapped. Not to be the epitome of a teacher's pet, but I do agree with Mr. MacArthur when he says that we can all connect with that. I do believe that we all feel a little trapped in quiet Tolland, I certainly do.
I like the connection of the ending to Montana 1948. There was also a similar "tying up of ends" in this story. I also liked what Taylor said about it being a story of fading love. I don't know if your love can really fade, or simply that magical feeling thats associated with it. Eustacia's love for Clym was characterized by it's newness and promises for bigger things, and when those thoughts ran their course, she felt that she didn't love Clym as much anymore. Personally, i think that Eustacia still loved Clym just as much as before, but her depression from her situation overshadowed that and gave the illusion of lost love. I think it was instead her passion that shifted from person to person.
I also don't think Eustacia purposefully drown (drowned?) herself. I believe she was driven forward through the heath, blind from her grief. She knew the heath well enough not to be put off course by the darkness or rain. The play was set around 1850, and back then women wore thick clothing such as dresses and capes, and when clothing like that gets wet its heavy. Eustacia didn't strike me as the type of girl who lifted weights, so I think that in her grief, the rain, and her heavy clothes, Eustacia didn't have a chance.
And lastly, I liked what everyone is saying about how the story was intricately weaved together. I think that type of connection kept the story easy to connect to and easier to follow despite the many characters and plot lines.
Cristina, I really like what you said about how this book shows how one small thing can change the course of your entire life.
ReplyDeleteI think I agree with you and Katie, about believing that Eustacia didn't drown herself on purpose. As you mentioned, she was just given the opportunity to begin a life she always wanted. I kind of think Eustacia lived more for herself and followed what she wanted, and she didn't need a husband, and so her separation with Clym would have happened, one way or another. And she said that in the beginning of their relationship, how one day she would stop loving him, so that was a kind of foreshadowing.
But back to her death, she did walk into her father's room with the intention of killing herself, and I think she might have if Charley hadn't hidden the pistols. So, like Meghan said, maybe she just became so overcome with her depression that she did kill herself.
I wonder if Hardy had it in mind if she killed herself or just fell into the river, or if he meant for readers to decide for themselves.
Megan, I was also wondering whether Eustacia drowned herself on purpose or not. I'm inclined to believe that she did do it intentionally, because the last time the readers are put into her head she's a confused, emotional mess; she had earlier considered shooting herself; and she never called for help after entering the water. Let's face it, she was overdramatic and selfish (please see, "My husband is temporarily blind, now I'll never get to Paris! And woe to me, he does manual labor while I sit around all day!") throughout the book and given the choices of running away and dealing with the guilt of leaving Clym, staying in the heath and having to actually work at her relationship, or theatrically drowning herself, she would most likely go for the latter.
ReplyDeleteTaylor and Megan, Susan's voodoo doll was creepy! That mention in the book actually seemed really out of place to me :Lalala, raining in the heath, more emotional drama, BAM! Crazy voodoo lady!. How ironic that the woman who stabbed Eustacia with a needle in church to prove Eustacia was a witch, actually practices some not-so-church-friendly methods herself.
I think that this was definitely the best summer reading book, although by the end my line of thought was pretty much, "I don't care what happens to anybody else, so long as Diggory Venn gets a happy ending." He didn't come across as sociopathic to me at all, Josh, but I do agree that the original ending where Venn and Thomasin don't end up together would've been more fitting with the line of the story. It reminded me of the two endings of Great Expectations where you can pick option A, Dickens' original unhappy but consistent ending, or option B, the editor's forced "make them end up together! People will love it!" ending. But hey, let's not look the happy ending horse in the mouth.
Nina Barbero
But wait, there's more!
ReplyDeleteIt was pleasant that the book started and ended with the celebration of a wedding - yay Thomas Hardy, we've come full circle! I was not a fan, however, of the mentions of Thomasin and Clym possibly getting together - no Thomas Hardy, incest is not okay! I was also really annoyed with Charley and his obsession with Eustacia, and his general forwardness. Like on page 414 after Eustacia has died and Clym basically says, "You had a thing for my dead wife, right?" and Charley unhesitatingly responds in the positive; then a few pages later Clym asks if he is missed at the party and Charley says, "Not at all!" "But maybe they're drinking to my health?" "No way, they're drinking the the Venns' health!"
My favorite part of the book was that point on page 393 when Clym has basically become a recluse, and begins to live life vicariously through sounds below the floorboards. I may be way off the mark here, but I thought a lot of the book relied on things that were heard, like the sound of the rocks into the pond was the signal that Wildeve was nearby; Eustacia hearing Clym say "mother", in his sleep leads her to believe he will answer the door, which indirectly kills Mrs. Yeobright; it is the idea of Clym singing happily while working that angers Eustacia; it is the sound of the townsfolk singing that distresses Thomasin when we first meet her; and it is the sound of Eustacia falling (or jumping) into the water that alerts Clym and Wildeve of her endangerment.
Now, a question: If Eustacia hadn't heard the men talking about how perfect Clym would be for her and she had met Clym accidentally, would they have ended up together at all?
Nina Barbero
I definitely agree with you on the incest thing, Nina. I was desperately hoping Clym and Thomasin would not end up together as I read those pages. I'm quite relieved things did not turn out that way.
ReplyDeleteAs for your question, I believe that if Eustacia had met Clym accidentally she wouldn't have been nearly as interested. When she was listening to the men, they were saying how they were similar in wealth and how Clym had come from Paris. I think the fact that Eustacia knew that Clym came from such a vibrant place that she had always been interested in going to influenced all the effort she put into their relationship.
-Kelsey Gallant
I really like your connection to the noise-action in the book, Nina. It really was a book that played to all of the senses. That made the landscape, the people, and the situations much easier to imagine and connect to.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Kelsey that she probably wouldn't have given Clym the light of day if she hadn't heard people talking about how he was from Paris. In their marriage, Eustacia stopped really loving Clym as soon as he explained his plan to stay on the heath and not return to Paris.
Just finished Return of the Native and I can officially say that it was my favorite of the summer reading books! I felt that compared Goldengrove, the characters in Return of the Native were all interesting and complete. Goldengrove focused so much on Nico and her thoughts that it neglected a lot of the other characters. Her mother was just some caricature druggy and the way her father seemed more interested in his work than in helping his daughter get over Margaret's death seemed unrealistic to me. I didn't feel that the other characters like Elaine and her son served any real purpose to the story and they were just kind of there. But Return of the Native wasn't just about one character, it was about several. I think that no one character was more realistic or interesting than another - everyone had his or her own feelings, motivations, and personalities. This made me more interested in the storyline and more emotionally invested in the characters' lives.
ReplyDeleteI also liked Return of the Native more than A Moon for the Misbegotten. My problem with the play is not the characters - I thought that Eugene O'Neill did a good job fleshing out Jim's backstory and Josie's emotions. My problem was just that the play was very self-contained; the whole thing only took place over one day and the characters never really left the house. I liked how Return of the Native was also set in one place, the heath, but the author still managed to have a fair bit of action even in a smaller setting. It also helped that the story took place over two years or so, which showed how the characters' situations and outlooks changed.
I agree with Nina that the alternate ending with Thomasin and Diggory's wedding, while more satisfying, was not as consistent with the story. I know that Venn had always said that he could quit being a reddleman whenever he wanted, but if that were true, why did he become one in the first place? I think that he is naturally an outsider and needs his weird appearance to separate himself from the rest of society. It seemed a little too convenient to me that he just quit his job and washed off the red paint and got a farm and got rich and married the girl of his dreams. Seeing as how nobody else besides Thomasin and Venn got such a happy ending, it was very at odds with the overall tone of the book.
I did, however, really like Clym's ending. I think it was good for him to be finally rid of Eustacia's emotional rollercoaster, even though I don't think she quite deserved to die. I also like that Clym got to do what he wanted most - teach people. He doesn't live happily ever after or anything, but I think he will be able to get over his past some day and he will end up content with his life and his work. He is, after all, the guy who could sing while he was going blind and I think that his inherent optimism will help him through the heartbreak he experienced.
Right now I am about halfway through The Return of the Native and I am very surprised with how much I actually like this book. I have heard that many parts of the book are dry and hard to get through. I agree, but I really do like the story line and what is going on so far. I would try to respond to some of the comments people have written, but as I read through some of them, I spoiled some things for myself (oops!). Because of that, I am just going to mention some things that I've noticed so far. Many people have mentioned to me that the beginning of the book is hard to get through, and I completely agree. (I was very happy when it picked up.) However, there was one thing that I really liked about the beginning of the novel. I really liked the way that different parts of the beginning overlapped to introduce the story to the reader. The book starts out with an old man walking down a road. This man passes a reddleman who had a woman with his load. These characters are later introduced in the story as Diggory Venn and Thomasin. The story passes on to the reddleman as he watches the silhouettes of people appearing grouped together and carrying things. The scene then switches to the silhouettes who were boys and men from the area having a bon fire. The story then proceeds, referring back to the reddleman who had Thomasin with him. I know that this is just a little thing in the whole book, but I really did like the way that the author introduced the story to the reader. I thought it was clever, and well written.
ReplyDeleteEmily I'm at the same spot you are! It might not have been the best idea to this book for last and I'm jealous of everyone who read this one first! And i agree with you about the way Hardy introduces some of the characters, it's me favorite part so far. Anyways, I can see why people are calling some parts of this book boring and slow, the beginning for sure, but when characters are introduced the action really picks up. Im defiantly going to agree with Meghan's comment about this book reminding her of a soap opera, it reminds me of one too.
ReplyDeleteI'm beginning to think that this writing style is different than anything we have really read. The descriptions are lengthy and Hardy's word choices are certainly more advanced than Prose or O'Neill.
Briana Penney
I first started this book towards the middle of July and put it down only after few pages. I decided I would save it until after all of my other summer reading books were finished. I picked up "Return of the Native" two weeks ago and so far I am only about 70 pages in. I find this book to drag out for long periods of time and I can only read for a little while before I get bored and have to stop reading. I feel most of the time I have to force myself to read this book. From the very beginning of "Return of the Native", many characters are thrown at the reader and a lot of the characters have nicknames or, due to the vernacular style, the names are spellt different so the reader can never be too sure of what character is being talked about.
ReplyDeleteBecky L., I take your advice in that after the first few pages it's a little and I will also take Cristina's, Jess', and your advice that after the first part, the book gets better!
Do you guys think Eustacia drowned herself or fell into the pool?
ReplyDeleteAt first, I thought Thomasin fell into the pool with her baby- and I was very worried/shocked! I thought that it would be a very sad ending for Thomasin and her baby to die, when they were the innocent bystanders as Wildeve ran away with Eustacia.
I think that Eustacia committed suicide because she was very hopeless and unhappy. Although she was on her way to the life she wanted in Paris, she was worried about not having any money, and she was thinking about how Wildeve wasn't good enough for her. I think she was feeling very miserable and downcast and the colaboration of all these things and not being able to envision a desirable future led her to commit suicide.
I like when authors leave out details like Eustacia's death so you can think it through and pick what ending you like best- but you never know for sure, I wish they put the details in the back of the book so that you can choose to look when you're done wondering. I feel incomplete when I don't know for sure what really happened.
I thought it was nice that Clym forgave Eustacia for indirectly killing his mother. I think that it was unfortunate that Eustacia didn't receive Clym's letter, although I don't think she would've gone back to him- she had her mind set.
Megan I think that the voodoo doll might have played a part in Eustacia's death. The whole scene seemed eerie.
The Return of the Native is an interesting book, I'll admit that freely. It is the writing style that i don't really enjoy, since it makes it hard for me to focus on the book. In a way, Native reminded me of a tragic version of A Midsummer Night's Dream. Eustacia loved Wildeve, even though she knew that it was only because there wasn't anything better, Wildeve was marrying Thomasin, and the reddleman Venn was really in love with her. but when Eustacia started seeing Clym, Wildeve attempts to get Eustacia back, despite the fact he is now married.
ReplyDeleteEustacia is my favorite character, for reasons that i don't really understand. In a way, she's like every girl who has lived in a small town, dreaming of running off into the real world beyond. In a way, those dreams ruin her chance for love, as she is willing to go with Wildeve for her dreams despite the fact she knows Wildeve is unworthy of her. - Nikki Halliday
I just finished the first "book" of The Return of the Native. The beginning was very monotonous and hard to get through, though it did paint a good picture of the heath. It seems like a very calm, peaceful place that never changes, although sometimes all you'd want to do is get out.
ReplyDeleteThe funeral fire tradition was interesting. I wondered how often they performed the ritual and liked how all the surrounding towns also had the tradition so that on that night if you looked around, all the fires could be seen. I liked the contrasting image of the bright fires with the dark valley.
It seems like a couple of the characters are afraid of the dark and ghosts that haunt people during the night.
I want to know why Mrs. Yeobright changed her mind and allowed Wildeve to marry Thomasin after all. What caused her to go back on her decision? She seems very controlling in her niece's life and I wondered if that was the custom back then to be so involved in the affairs of the family members you are the guardian of.
I noticed some foreshadowing and guessed that there was something between the reddleman and Thomasin.
I like how the story is told through many people's point of view. When one character comes into contact with another character, the story then is told through that other character's eyes. It's a cool writing style.
When I first met Eustacia, I felt bad for her because she used to live in Budmouth, a bustling and vibrant place, and now she's stuck in Egdon where nothing happens. But now that I've read more about her, I'm not a fan of hers. She seems selfish and lazy. When the reddleman offered to take her to Budmouth and told her all she'd have to do was keep the old lady happy, she refused and complained that she wouldn't be able to do her own things.
Eustacia didn't appreciate Wildeve until Thomasin wanted him. Eustacia only wanted Wildeve when he was not completely hers. Once the reddleman offered to marry Thomasin and Wildeve was no longer obligated to marry her, Eustacia felt her love for him fading. She felt too superior to stoop to love him. She felt that he certainly wasn't worthy of her love if he wasn't enough for Thomasin.
It would be interesting to see what would happen if Eustacia and Thomasin met and how they would interact knowing that they were both vying for Wildeve's love.
Book 2 is getting better haha. I am slightly confused of the love pentagon? Thomasin loved Wildeve, but not there's something between her and Digory Venn. And then Eustacia had a thing with Wildeve. And when she hears the people outside her house talking, Eustacia ponders the thought of her and Clym being together. I also don't really like Mrs. Yeobright because her character is very judgemental and I get a I'm-better-than-you feeling from her.
ReplyDeleteMeghan P., I definitely agree with you that "Return of the Native" is just like a soap opera! There is so much drama, love affairs, and lies all mixed up! The book is starting to get pretty intense.
The beginning of this novel was definitely hard for me to stay focused on. I often had to re-read sections because my mind would wonder though my eyes were still skimming over the text. Once the story began to unfold, it was much easier for me to stay on track with everything that was happening.
ReplyDeleteEustacia seemed ungrateful to me. I didn’t like the way that Eustacia completely broke off her marriage with Wildeve to be with Clym before she even met him. She just kicked Wildeve to the side when she found a man (Clym) who was more interesting. I also believe that Eustacia was the reason Clym distanced himself from his mother. Eustacia was definitely not a character I liked.
I’ve only skimmed through the comments, but I don’t think anyone has mentioned much about how Mrs. Yeobright died from the snake bite. She was only trying to mend her relationship between Eustacia and Clym, but Eustacia sent her away. Poor Clym was left believing it was his fault for his mother’s death until Eustacia finally confessed.
I believed that Eustacia accidentally drown. I agree with Katie’s thought about the heavy, wet clothing. I read the book a few weeks ago, but wasn’t she on her way to meet with Wildeve to leave Egdon? Why would she kill herself if she was finally going to get what she wanted?
-Kayla Croft
So on vacation I managed to get through the first "book" of this and now I'm moving much more quickly through the reading. I like and dislike how many different character relationships there are. I dislike them simply because I had to keep thinking back to remember who's in love with who and who they're "supposed to" be with, and it got confusing sometimes. On the other hand, when I was reading, I kind of liked not knowing who was going to end up with who. It added some suspense and drama to a plot I was totally not interested in at first.
ReplyDeleteKayla, I had to do the same thing for the beginning of the book. I would get bored and have to go back and reread pages two or three times sometimes. That first "book" definitely was the hardest to get through.
Carolyn Sireci
I just finished Return of the Native and I’m not quite sure how I feel about it. At first the enduring explanations and lengthy descriptions about the heath seemed to drag on. Although the heath was an essential part of the story, if I didn’t have to read this book from beginning to end, the beginning would have discouraged me from reading the rest of the novel. However once I started reading about the characters, the dialogue and the plot made the novel worth reading. I can’t say that this was my favorite book but the love schemes and the “soap-opera” style that Meghan mentioned made the story a unique and interesting read.
ReplyDeleteIn regards to the characters I hated Wildeve and Eustacia. I felt that without these two characters’ unfaithfulness and dishonesty towards their spouses everything would have gone smoothly and many of the heartbreaks of the story could have been avoided. If the two still had feelings for each other, they should not have made their vows towards anyone else. Thomasin, a woman who was always understanding, and loving towards her husband did not deserve to be married to a man as selfish as Wildeve. Wildeve’s selfish actions disturbed me throughout the novel. Sneaking away to meet with Eustacia, gambling to win the guineas that belonged to Thomasin so that he could have the wealth associated with them, and being angry with the result of a daughter, rather than a son, were only a few of the actions I could not stand while reading about Wildeve and Thomasin’s “relationship”.
Eustacia, to me was a materialistic girl who never cared about finding love. Eustacia may have loved Clym at first, but I feel that the thought of moving back to Paris with him was always in the back of her mind, which is essentially what she loved the most. When Eustacia found out about Wildeve’s fortune, the thoughts towards him started again and came more frequently. Not telling Clym about his mother and her encounter with Wildeve on that day was selfish and instigated Clym and Mrs. Yeobright excessive, unnecessary misfortune.
I thought the ending was the complete opposite of the beginning, very exhilarating, and captivating. I thought Wildeve and Eustacia got what was coming to them. Eustacia may have been misunderstood, or dealing with emotional misfortunes, but she created them for herself. I was pleased that Thomasin ended up with Diggory Venn, because he cared about her from the beginning, and his consideration towards her made him a better spouse than Wildeve. It’s fortunate that Thomasin got to be with someone who would appreciate all her respectable characteristics. I was a little confused at the ending for Clym though. Did he end up happy or doing something that he wanted? I also don’t fully understand why he was the “native” of the story. Overall I enjoyed this novel.
Oh, and I also agree with Kayla and Katie’s comments about Eustacia’s drowning being accidental. When reading other’s comments about Eustacia being suicidal, I was confused, because I thought that she was finally leaving to be where she had always wanted, as well. I don’t think she would kill herself purposely if she was only trying to be happy again and leave all the misfortunes she had created.
The Return of the Native was my least favorite of all three books. Looking back, it was a good story, but getting through the first half was a bit painful. The first half was incredibly boring. It picked up a lot in the second half. I was engrossed by all the love triangles and unrequited love and the end of the book flew by.
ReplyDeleteDiggory Venn was my favorite character. He loved Thomasin so much that he worked hard to make sure that she would be happy with Damon, and he made sure that Damon would not cheat with Eustacia. I was incredibly pleased at the ending, even if it wasn't the ending intended by the author. To me, it was the perfect, romantic, happy ending. I felt bad for Clym in the end though. He lost both his mother and his wife, and he blamed himself for both their deaths. I also felt bad for Thomasin when Damon was cheating on her and planning on running away with Eustacia, all while they had an infant. But i was hoping that Damon would run away so she would be free to marry Diggory.
I really hated Eustacia's character. She only wanted Clym and Damon when she believed that they would be able to take her away to Paris. She didn't care about anybody but herself. It really annoyed me when she was able to give up on Damon so easily when he married Thomasin. I had no sympathy for Eustacia after Clym kicked her out. I believe that she got what she deserved. She had a good marriage to an honest man, but she had to ruin it because he wanted to stay in the Egdon, instead of bring her to Paris. I think it was a little extreme for Clym to blame her for the death of his mother, but she should have told him sooner, or have just let his mother in the house when she visited. Eustacia used people to get what she wanted, and was in no way motivated by her love for Clym or Damon. The second she learned of Damon's inheritance, she automatically "fell back in love" with him.I agree that Eustacia tried to drown herself on purpose. It seems to fit her dramatic, selfish character and her previous behavior of wanting to kill herself.
Megan Giangrande
Danielle- I agree that it would be interesting to see Thomasin and Eustacia meet. I wonder if Eustacia would see how sweet Thomasin is, and re-think running to Paris with Wildeve. I actually wonder if Eustacia would think about anyone but herself.
ReplyDeleteMegan-I agree that Eustacia deserved to be kicked out of the house. She made two bad decisions- not to open the door for Clym's mother, and opening the door for Wildeve. Although she was indirectly to blame for Clym's mother's death, I think it could've been avoided if Eustacia could just simply wake Clym up. It was one bad decision that had a domino effect on her life.
Did anyone notice a sort of Montague/Capulet type dislike between the Yeobright and Vye families? At least from Mrs. Yeobright's perspective. It's certainly toned down as they aren't fighting and killing each other like in Romeo and Juliet, but it just occurred to me while I was reading some of what Mrs. Yeobright said throughout the novel.
ReplyDeleteCarolyn Sireci
When I first responded to The Return of the Native, I said that I was surprised with how much I liked the novel so far. After finally finishing the book, I’m not too sure how I feel about it. I liked how the book picked up after the slow beginning and turned into a mess of a love triangle. By the end I was really absorbed, and finished the ending fairly quickly. However, there were a lot of little details that really bothered me about this book.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, some of the character's actions troubled me. One of these characters was Diggory Venn. The true intentions of Venn have already been discussed. I would like to add my point of view. The two perspectives discussed already were that Venn was either “golden hearted” or that he was just jealous. I’m not sure if either of these descriptions accurately fit in with my feelings towards Venn. While I do not think he acted out of jealousy, it doesn’t seem right to describe him as a “golden-hearted man”. Venn’s actions seemed, for lack of a better word, almost creepy. It was a little strange to me that his heart stuck with Thomasin for so long. I was surprised that even though he knew there was hardly any hope for them to be together, he still tried to help her so much. It seemed a little unrealistic to me.
Another character that bothered me at times was Clym. After his mother and Eustacia died, it seemed as if he spent much of the time sulking about how it was his fault. He seemed dramatic in the way he felt that he could never love again. I was also a bit unsatisfied with how his story line ended. It was upsetting that after all of the troubles he went through, his ending was a little grim.
By the end of the book I was very intrigued, and desperately wanted to know how it would all play out. I got so absorbed that at some points I would get really mad with the book. I was upset when Eustacia didn’t just open the door for Mrs. Yeobright. In my head I was urging her on, yelling almost. I still wish she just opened that door! It also bothered me later when Eustacia didn’t tell Clym that it was her fault his mother died and not his. We kept having to read about how upset he was and again I felt like yelling at her to just tell him! If she had just explained things to him instead of hiding them for him to find out later on his own, things could have been alright. Like many people have said, certain decisions if changed only a little would have altered the story completely.
Painful... The only word that comes to mind when I look at this book. I know several people have posted about how slow this was of a read compared to the other two, but seriously I felt like a part of me was dying each time I opened this story. When I began the book, the lengthy description of the heath set the tone for the rest of the story. The book is so filled with detail, that you find yourself lost if your not constantly reminding yourself of what’s going on. I know some authors like to write with incredible amounts of detail, It helps the reader to see what they are seeing. The Lord of the Rings series comes to mind right away, with Tolkien explaining everything, but I feel that this book would have been much better without that style. I truly feel that this book could have been trimmed down at least 100 pages if the author (Thomas Hardy) just focused on the writing the story instead whatever popped into his head. That being said there were a few gaps that moved slightly faster than the crawling pace of the rest of the book, the gambling scene between Diggory Venn and Damon Wildeve was a high point. The book's plot itself was honestly not my cup of tea. The story was filled with love triangles, each one stranger then the last. The most obvious being between Clym, Eustacia, and Damon. The next between Mrs. Yeobright, Clym, and Eustacia. And then after that we have the one between Mrs. Yeobright, Damon, and Thomasin. And then we throw in another between Damon, Thomasin, and Diggory. And the list keeps going and going, each character having their own agenda. I am not really into love stories (if this can even be called that). The fact that love (or the lack of it) is the driving factor in this story did not help me get through it, I couldn't relate to it and couldn't picture it. The climax didn't really help either. Really? They drown? Instead of letting them run off to Paris, the author KILLS them. I fail to see the meaning behind it. They could have just left and the story could have progressed the same. Damon and Eustacia both would have been gone for good. But no, he feels they must die some unusual death. I hope I'm not the only one that feels it was cheesy. All in all, This was not a book for me, and I'm rather happy to be rid of it.
ReplyDeleteCarolyn, I completely agree with your comment about the Yoebright and Vye families creating a parallel with the Montague and Capulet families from Romeo and Juliet. Clym could have passed as Romeo and Eustacia for Juliet, except for the fact that Eustacia had two lovers and couldn't commit to Clym. Mrs. Yoebright was always grumpy, as well, about Clym leaving her to marry Eustacia. She provided the attitude that was similar to the tone of the tense relationship between the Montagues and Capulets.
ReplyDeleteI am happy to say that I am finally finished with this book. I have to say that there were a few things I enjoyed with this book but there were many things that I could not stand. Oddly, I found the first book to be the most interesting of the books. I enjoyed how much detail that Hardy incorporated into the Heath and all of the characters. I also enjoyed getting introduced to all of the characters and their respective idiosyncrasies. Past the beginning though, I simply could not enjoy the book. I agree with Meghan when she first stated that the book resembled a modern day soap opera. I am in no way a fan of anything that shows any semblance of a soap opera. I detest the cliché plots and the atrocious acting performances. In addition, I also didn't enjoy the happy ending that Hardy threw in. If Hardy had stuck to the typical five-part tragedy format then I would have been a little happier. But rather than sticking to the five book format, Hardy decides to add an additional sixth book to bring closure to the book. Personally, I could have gone without this ending. Finally, I agree with Ben when he said that he doesn't see the meaning behind the deaths of Eustacia and Wildeve. I too found this an odd and mildly pathetic way to eliminate two prominent characters from a story. In short, I did think that Hardy did a fantastic job in creating the Heath and all of the characters, but he did a poor job in executing an original plot.
ReplyDeleteJeff Gilcreast
I agree with Ben and Jeff on believing there was really no reason behind killing Eustacia and Wildeve. In my previous post, I said how I thought the two characters got what they deserved, but now that I've read their posts, I feel they didnt need to be killed in order for them to be punished. If Eustacia was so miserable, continuing to live with the guilt and misery that she created for herself, would have been more of a punishment than death would. The author did a good job leading up to the end, and preparing us with descriptions of the Heath, and the characters. He also linked all the love schemes together brilliantly, so why couldn't he come up with something more creative and thrilling than simply killing the "bad guys"?
ReplyDeleteThis was my least favorite book out of all of the summer reading. It was very descriptive, which can be a good element in a story, but I found Hardy's writing to be tedious. I agree with Ben in that the book could have been shortened by at least 150 pages. My mind was swimming in all the descriptions that were printed on each page. I struggled to keep focus theoughout the entire novel. The first few chapters dragged on for eternity just describing the Heath and introducing the characters. Once the plot got going I found the book much easier to read, but still slow. The complications with all the relationships made the story more interesting so I could overcome all the little details Hardy felt compelled to add. From the very beginning I disliked Eustacia. She seemed arrogant and selfish, which proved true when she left Clym for Wildeve and his money. I also agree with Kaitlin when she said it would have been more of a punishment if Eustacia had to live with her misery. Since she has passed away, she misses out on the guilt and despair that would have lied ahead in her life. Her death and also the death of Wildeve did seem totally pointless and sudden like a few others have posted. The ending is typical and it would have been more interesting if Hardy used his imagination to think of something that would leave the reader in awe. I think this book could have been much better if Hardy had made a few changes...
ReplyDeleteWhen I first read the novel, I thought that the deaths of Eustacia and Wildeve were unnecessary as many of you have just stated. However, I would like to offer up a reason to why they do fit well in the novel, and why Hardy may have written it that way. At one point in the book, Eustacia sees the pistols in her grandfather’s room and contemplates taking her own life. Because of this fact, you are forced to consider that her death may not have been an accident. Eustacia’s death makes you think twice about her character. You must consider that if she really did commit suicide, then why? What would make her want to do it when she was beginning a life that she had always wanted? Even if you do think that Eustacia’s death was an accident, there is always that creeping doubt. It makes you think about why she would do something like that. In this way, you begin to think more deeply about her character, and the troubles she faced throughout the book. If Hardy had written an ending where Eustacia didn’t die but still suffered, her character would not be as complex. Her possible suicide makes you think twice about who she really is.
ReplyDeleteEmily, I love your thought about the ending! It's a different way to look at the ending we all are questioning. After considering what you've said I can understand the death of Eustacia a little more clearly. Her death, if a possible suicide, does tell us more about her character. If it was a suicide, then it brings up the question "why?" Of course there's the simple answer of guilt and misery, but maybe there's another reason hiding behind those. Although on the surface it may not seem likely, but Eustacia might have felt insecure about the selfish person she was and the actions she's taken. This only proves further that her death does add a new dimension to who she truly is. This ending can be interpreted into so many ways!
ReplyDeleteI thought that this novel had an interesting plot, and a lot of very well-developed characters. In my opinion, it had potential to be a really great novel. But because of (surprise, surprise) its almost painfully slow pace, this book was my least favorite of the three. I found that it was harder to read because it required so much focus. If my attention started to drift at all while reading, I found myself having to backtrack and re-read several pages in order to find out which characters were being described.
ReplyDeleteThat said, the storyline itself was interesting. The twists in the progression of the characters' relationships kept me guessing as to how everything was going to end. I don't think I ever once found myself predicting what would happen entirely correct.
I also had trouble determining what I really thought of Eustacia's character. In many instances, she was frustrating and incredibly selfish - I couldn't stand her. But at other times, I found myself feeling almost sympathetic towards her. I'm still not entirely sure where I stand. But Emily's interpretation of Eustacia's death is really making me approach her character in a different light. I hadn't connected the scene in which she noticed the pistols to the scene of her death. If she had, in fact, committed suicide, it tells a lot more about her character and the emotional struggles that she faced. It's an entirely new and complex thing to consider.
As many people have already said I think that the characters in this book were very well developed. Hardy had an interesting way of introducing and describing the characters. I thought it was very well thought out the way he moved from one character to another. For example, in the beginning of the novel when the reddleman with the woman in the wagon was walking with the old man. We had no idea who these characters were, but we slowly figure it out as the novel progresses. Hardy also uses chapters upon chapters to describe the minor details of the characters. Like the chapter Queen of the Night all about Eustacia. It was good to get a background about the characters, but I think it was a little too wordy.
ReplyDeleteHardy's use of extensive description drove me crazy while reading. If he were to cut at least half of the description, the book would have been a lot more enjoyable. Though the description seemed to take away from the novel rather than enhance it, I liked the the drama of it all. It was an interesting to explore and learn about all the different love triangles and how all of them could come from the same two women.
This novel had an interesting plot, but the crazy descriptions of every little thing I think took away from the story, and lost the attention of the reader.
Kristin Carr
This book took me the longest to get into. I thought I would never enjoy this book because of my perspective on the first few chapters. Too my surprise, It turned out to be my favorite book out of the three. By the end I was completely enthralled in all of the characters lives and outcomes.
ReplyDeleteI loved all of the love triangles that were going on. It was not the classic cliches that you see over and over again whether in literature, movies, ect. Instead all of the drama was happening between Eustacia, Clym, Wildeve, Venn, and Thomasin. Of course their was some mother drama with Mrs. Yeobright.
I'm sure some might disagree, but I liked Eustacia. She fought for what she wanted and wasn't afraid to hold back her opinions. She was driven by her emotions, sometimes making rash decesions, but in my thoughts a strong women.
I find it quite interesting that Eustacia and Wildeve die together. In the end I feel they were meant to be together. Wildeve jumped into the water right away to attempt to save Eustacia while Clym hesitated a few seconds longer, therefore surving.
As many have stated the descriptions may have been a little overkill, but regardless I think the plot is amazing; so many twists and turns you never would expect.
I'm one of those people that didn't like Eustacia. I did feel bad for her once hearing about her past, but through the whole book there was just something about her that bothered me. She did things only for her own sake. She knew what she wanted, which showed her individuality and strength, but at the same time she was hurting others. For example, I feel that the true reason she married Clym was becuase of his connections to Paris. She wanted adventure and to get out of the Heath, but faking love to someone that loves her is just wrong.
ReplyDeleteNot only did the actions of Eustacia bother me, but also Wildeve's. He too only did things for himself. He would go back and forth from loving Eustacia and Thomasin. This wasn't fair for either of the women. His sneeking around was deceitful and literally made me angry. He wanted both women, rather than being content with one. He should have just chose the one he loved more instead of desttroying two women's lives.
Overall, this book was okay. I enjoyed the second half of the book much more than the first half. It became more of a page turner when the action started happening and the love triangles began to expand. The ending of the book was satisfying for me. I liked how Thomasin and Venn ended up together. Venn was protecting her through the whole book and I thought he deserved the true love he was seeking.
Kristin Carr
Kristin, I liked that Thomasin and Venn ended up together too. From the very beginning Venn was there to support Thomasin no matter what happened. Even after she married Wildeve, Venn was still there when she needed his help or advice. The relationship between Thomasin and Venn was genuine and true while the marriage between WIldeve and Thomasin seemed fake. Throughout the entire book I was secretly hoping Venn and Thomasin would get together and fall in love. I couldn't help but get excited when Thomasin finally realized how great of a guy Venn was.
ReplyDeleteAfter the long and detailed beginning, I liked how the rest of the book played out.
ReplyDeleteI still think Eustacia was a selfish character. As soon as she heard the men talking about Clym, she forgot all about Wildeve. I think part of Clym's allure was that he was a well-traveled man and could be a means of escaping the heath. I don't think she ever would have been satisfied with any man as long as they stayed on the heath. After the glow of their marriage wore off, that's why I think their relationship began to fall apart--Clym loved the heath and didn't want to leave, while leaving was all Eustacia wanted to do. Eustacia used her womanly charm to get what she wanted, such as when she wanted to trade places with Charley and go mumming. I was surprised that she gave Thomasin away to Wildeve to show that she was happy they were getting married. I feel that Eustacia was very selfish and horrible when she interfered in Clym's relationship with his mother. She should have stepped back and let them work out the problems they had with each other. Otherwise, Mrs. Yeobright would have lived and reconciled with her son. I wonder if Eustacia would have killed herself if Charley hadn't taken the pistols away and hid them. I also wonder if reading Clym's letter would have changed her mind about anything. I think Eustacia committed suicide because if she was meeting Wildeve to go to Paris, then why was she down near the weir at all? I think that if she wanted to get out of Egdon, she wouldn't have walked close enough to the water to chance falling in. It's unclear if or how much the voodoo doll affected her death. The voodoo doll was thrown in the fire and consumed by flames, but the water could have been symbolic of the fire.
I think the loss of Mrs. Yeobright before she and her son had fixed their relationship was sad. After all the sadness and guilt, they were finally trying to apologize and mend their relationship, and then not only did Mrs. Yeobright die, but she had made it to Clym's house and was turned away by Eustacia. She died thinking that Clym had turned against her. I do, however, think that after realizing that she wasn't going to change Clym's mind, Mrs. Yeobright should have supported her son.
I liked Thomasin. I felt bad that Wildeve only used her to make Eustacia jealous and didn't seem to care about her too much when she'd done nothing wrong to him. I liked how on their wedding day she wore 7 strands of hair on her braid; is it supposed to bring good luck? Even thought Thomasin had an idea that something was going on between Eustacia and Wiledeve, she kept it to herself and didn't make a big scene about it like I think Eustacia would have if she were in Thomasin's place. I was really glad that Thomasin and Venn got married and that she finally had someone who loved only her. I thought it was interesting how she referred to her pregnancy as an illness.
I really liked Diggory Venn. I felt bad for him in the beginning when he was everyone's pawn and was always being used when all he wanted was for Thomasin to return his love. He was very selfless and wanted her to be happy, so he scared Wildeve into staying home at night. I wondered why Venn gave all the money to Thomasin that Mrs. Yeobright wanted to give to both Clym and Thomasin. He had observed the whole gambling exchange between Wildeve and Christian, so he would have heard Christian say that half of the money belonged to Clym. I also wondered why he suddenly reappeared in the heath after months of being gone.
continued:
ReplyDeleteI was glad that Wildeve died. He married Thomasin to make Eustacia jealous but he never completely loved only her. He even walked every night to Eustacia and Clym's home to watch them, and was partly the reason why Eustacia didn't open the door for Mrs. Yeobright. His death allowed Thomasin and Venn to be together and have a happy marriage.
I also liked Clym. I liked that he wanted to give up his old life to do something that would make a difference even though he would hardly get any fame or fortune. I feel that he was better off without Eustacia complaining about how they were living a lowly lifestyle or nagging him about going to Paris. I'm glad he ended up preaching to people.
Overall, I actually really liked this book.
Cristina- I didn't even think about how the title tied into the book. I think it's a fitting title because Clym's return set the whole rest of the plot in motion.
Jess- I agree with you that the unfaithful characters got what they deserve.
It's interesting to think about how different your life would be if one thing hadn't happened and how this story really shows how a community can be so intricately weaved together and how one person's actions affect everyone else.
Nina- I like how you mentioned that a lot of the book is based on sounds; I never thought of that but thinking back it definitely makes sense. I also wonder if Eustacia and Clym would have ended up together if she didn't hear the men talking about how they'd make a perfect couple. I'm also glad that Thomasin and Clym never got together. I thought it was strange that Clym knew that he wouldn't be able to give her much love but thought getting married to her was a good idea.
I've noticed a lot of people saying that they felt bad for Clym in regards to how his story ended because they thought he was unhappy. I got the impression that he was as happy as he could be considering the situation--he was preaching to people and teaching them while still living in his beloved heath and everyone was kind to him even if they didn't agree with the ideas he preached.
I found it extremely difficult to get into this book. Like Shelby said, I kept drifting into thought while reading and having to go back. It just didn't hold my attention. But yes, the characters are extremely well-developed, and the description (while exhaustive) is beautiful. I neither loved nor hated the book.
ReplyDeleteThere were a fair amount of positive aspects, including all the love triangles which were, funnily enough, very similar to today's soap operas - everybody loves the one they can't have, and they all somehow find themselves with the wrong person. I'm not really a soap opera fan, but at least it gave something to relate to while reading.
I agree with Emily - I actually respected (and maybe even liked) Eustacia Vye. She meant business, and maybe she acted out a little, but most of what she did was out of her desire to be happy. I think it's fitting that Eustacia and Wildeve die together...they were meant to be together, after all, and they were in love all along. The fact that he irrationally tries to save her proves that it's really how he felt.
While definitely my least favorite of the summer reading books, it was at least (in essence) a good story.
In one of my last posts, I said a lot about the things I didn’t like about the book. Now I think it’s only fair to mention some of the things I like most about the book. First, I actually like the ending. The ending was a lot different than what Hardy originally intended, but I am ok with that. I think Hardy’s intended version would have made more sense. It was confusing how fast Diggory Venn could drop his job as the reddleman, and be someone very different. I thought it was very inconsistent with his character. However, after all of the troubles everyone went through, I would not have liked the book to end on a bad note. I like the end of the book, inconsistencies and all.
ReplyDeleteAnother thing that I like about the book, is something that has been mentioned a lot already. I really like how intertwined everything is. It is easy to image that if one little thing didn’t happen or if someone had acted a little differently, the story itself would be drastically different. It was sometimes fun to think about what could have, or would have happened with different actions by certain characters.
A small detail that I noticed about the book is the way it came full circle. The book begins with the reddleman and Thomasin, as he is bringing her home from her failed marriage to Wildeve. It was ironic to me that they were the two that ended up together in the end as well. I really like this one little fact.
In the book I also liked the endnotes. I did find it cumbersome to continuously go to the back of the book to read them, but I still found them full of interesting and enriching information. One of the endnotes I found to be really informative was one right after Wildeve realizes his longing for Eustacia had returned. In the text it says “Though Wildeve’s fevered feeling had not been elaborated to real poetical compass, it was of the standard sort. He might have been called the Rousseau of Egdon” (217). Reading this I would not have known what it meant. But going into the back of the book, it say that “Rousseau…was a famous philosopher who wrote about politics, literature, and education. Rousseau favored emotion over rationality” (418). The “emotion over rationality” bit helps to describe Wildeve, and help to make sense off why he didn’t just leave things the way they were. He had an impulse, and didn’t really think about the consequences. I think this endnote, along with many of the others, gave a deeper insight to the text.
I finished this last week and have taken a few days to determine what I think about it (and get my power/internet back!) So now that I have my power back on, I did like the book overall. It was definitely my least favorite of our three, but it wasn't terrible once I got into the actual story. It was so difficult to begin, however the plot developed well after the first "book," and I enjoyed the rest of it.
ReplyDeleteAt first I had trouble remembering who was with who vs. who they really wanted to be with, but by the time I got into the true plot, I had it mostly figured out. I liked how messy of a love circle it was. That gave some added suspense and excitement throughout.
I think Eustacia was my least favorite character. While she at first seemed sincere and honest in her intentions, I changed my mind about her more and more the further on I read. It seems to me that she had other motives of getting herself out of the heath and to Paris. As far as the purposely drown vs. fall into the water, I think she drowned herself. She honestly seemed unhappy living the life she had, plus she foreshadowed the death earlier with the scene at her grandfather's looking up at the pistols wanting to die.
On another note, I felt that Clym was sort of like Dimmesdale from The Scarlet Letter. I know we already compared to Dimmesdale in A Moon for the Misbegotten, but when Clym was feeling so much guilt for his mother's and Eustacia's deaths, he reminded me of Dimmesdale. The guilt wasn't to such an extreme degree with Clym, and did not give the same end result, but it seemed very similar to the earlier stages of Dimmesdale's suffering.
I agree with Julia's comment above; I thought it very fitting that both Eustacia and Wildeve died that night. They were meant to be together the entire time and as they both died in the same place on the same night, it's almost like they did end up together. In a weird kind of way.
So although I didn't really love Return of the Native, it wasn't too bad to get through once I got passed that nearly deathly beginning, and I can almost say I liked it. Not quite though haha.
A few people have mentioned Hardy's "intended ending" and how it would fit the tone of the book better. I feel like I'm missing something. I downloaded this book on my Kindle, and if there was information about a different ending, it wasn't included. Neither were endnotes.
ReplyDeleteWell, whether the actual ending was intended or not, I'm still happy with it. Usually when I read a book, I have strong feelings, either good or bad, about a lot of the characters. In this book, I had very strong feelings about Eustacia and Wildeve and found them both to be rather annoying, especially Eustacia. Therefore, I was not sad that they died in the end. I felt that Venn had good intentions and was a much better man for Thomasin than Wildeve. I also loved Thomasin and felt that she deserved someone who would love her and treat her right. I was glad that Venn and Thomasin ended up together.
Although the first couple of chapters were very slow and I found myself wondering what was going on, I overall really enjoyed this book. Many would disagree due to it's length and slow plot but I found it compelling. I took a trip to Niagara Falls this summer and since the car ride was so long, I easily was able to get myself engaged in the story without breaking up my thoughts.
ReplyDeleteI found it interesting that some characters were all connected. At the beginning, when the characters were still new to me, the introduction of Wildeve and Thamosin was interesting. When Diggory Venn met the old man with Thamosin in the back of his van, I never would have been able to infer that it was Thamosin if I hadn't previously read the book. At first, I found it confusing how Hardy used first and last names interchangeably. I was constantly caught up on who was who based on if Hardy used the characters first or last name- because I'm not good with names!
I believe that the reason I enjoyed this year's summer reading books was the aspect of romance. Each book consisted of a little bit of love or relationships. I was disappointed with Eustacia as well as Wildeve. Both of them had a wonderful marriage and in Wildeve's case, a family. I found it very weird that Eustacia was part of the wedding as well as the name for Thamosin and Wildeve's child. Since Wildeve and Eustacia had been sneaking off to see one another, I felt horribly for Thamosin. Without even knowing what her husband was doing, she spent her time raising the family. I was happy when Clym and Thamosin teamed up to try and put an end to Eustacia and Wildeve's problems. When the two were found dead, I immediately thought of the doll that was made to look like Eustacia. I thought it was just the doll that was intended to look like Eustacia had died- I was wrong!
I found the ending very dry and lacking excitement. I was glad that Thamosin ended up marrying Diggory Venn because i thought it was weird that Clym wanted to marry her. When Clym was going to propose to Thamosin, I found it as a classic moment I have seen in many movies. The guy finally getting up the courage to tell a girl his feelings and just before he does, she tells him of another man. Although I felt bad for Clym, I definitely agree with Nina and Kelsey about the incest. Therefore, I am glad Thamosin ended happily with Venn because he always put in a great amount of effort helping others rather than just himself. Both of them deserved happiness.
I greatly enjoyed this book.
-Amanda Landry
Carolyn, I agree that Clym is somewhat similar to Dimesdale. Guilt ate at both of them causing them to become very weak. The guilt overwhelmed both characters greatly. Both characters struggled and could never forgive themselves. The guilt drove both of them insane! It would be intersting to look closer and compare all the signs of the guilt which was eating at their souls.
ReplyDeleteDanielle- The note about Hardy’s intended ending was at the end of chapter three in book six. It said, “*The writer may sate here that the original conception of the story did not design a marriage between Thomasin and Venn. He was to have retained his isolated and weird character to the last, and to have disappeared mysteriously from the heath, nobody knowing whither—Thomasin remaining a widow. But certain circumstances of serial publication led to a change of intent. Readers can therefore choose between the endings, and those with an austere artistic code can assume the more consistent conclusion to be the true one. [Hardy’s note]” (391).
ReplyDeleteTo me, Hardy’s intended ending would have been much more consistent with the whole book. The way Venn turned around to become someone worthy of marrying Thomasin was very contradictory to his character in the rest of the novel. His strange behavior throughout the book would have fit better with an ending of him just leaving and disappearing from the heath. He was a mysterious loner. I think the ending detracted from that image, and the character himself.
As I said before, however, I did really like the ending to the book. I am one for happy endings, and I thought Hardy’s intended version would not have ended on a good note.
I certainly have mixed feelings on this one--it took me forever to read, and initially, I really couldn't stand the thing. Even when I finished I wasn't sure--it was tedious, to put it mildly. But beyond the lengthy writing style, I actually did appreciate The Return of the Native (I still don't know if I liked it, exactly). It was dark, and passionate, almost animalistic in parts. Most of the characters didn't seem particularly strong, but Eustacia certainly stood out, enough to compensate for everything less perfect about the book--she was strong, tough, and unique--all things, I think, important in a heroine. She was, of course, a bit melodramatic and selfish, but these flaws made her interesting, and support the essential feeling of the novel--passionate and kind of...beastly, in a way. Damon was strong in his own way, but mostly with regards to Eustacia. The ending was perfect, even if it was sort of a downer, and a fitting ending to a story of this sort. The writing was smooth and pretty, if a little boring--the descriptions became "too much" at some points. I never thought any writer could describe the curve of a person's lip so exhaustively...
ReplyDeleteKaitlin Flynn
It was difficult for me to get into this book at the beginning because it was so slow, but when I finally got all the names down and it started to pick up I got more into it. I was upset when Mrs. Yeobright died because she was so smart and right about her gut feeling of Eustacia. I felt like no one listened to her even though she did have a less than positive attitude. I didn’t like Eustacia from the beginning. She seemed very involved in herself. As people had said, I didn’t like how she died instead of facing consequences and living alone. It was very random how her and Wildeve died suddenly by drowning. I enjoyed reading Emily’s view on her death that it was possibly suicide. This was interesting because Eustacia was the kind of character that forced what she wanted to happen to happen instead of letting thinks play out on its own. For instance, she didn’t just fall in love with Clym, she made herself fall in love with him. If she hadn’t married Clym everything would’ve panned out differently. (Like Damon wouldn’t have married Thomasin and such) This led me to believe that she would have wanted control on deciding when she would die and how. Reading people’s comments did make me think more deeply into the characters’ personalities and looking at situations in the book at different angles.
ReplyDeleteI’m was glad that Thomasin and Clym didn’t get together, first of all because they are cousins, but also, like others said, it would’ve been such a cliché that they get together after being in bad marriages. I was glad that Clyn became a preacher, even though he couldn’t become a teacher as he’d wanted. I feel like he was more respected then when he was married to Eustacia. As a reader Clym and Eustacia’s marriage seemed almost fake, but when he was sort of “set free” from the marriage to be a preacher he seemed more outgoing to share his beliefs.
Although this novel is very slow and descriptive, I think it has an interesting plot. I agree that it took a long time to get started into this book due to the heavy description, but after the characters get introduced it is easier to follow along. The author uses great characterization and develops many different, unique personalities. I liked learning new clues and background about the characters as I read along. I'll be honest, there were times in the story when I wanted to say "Just get to the point!" but when it got there it was entertaining. A lot of the parts I was able to predict, but some events greatly surprised me. I also love in a book when every person and every little piece of information ties together in the end.
ReplyDeleteJenna Lovett
Looking back, now that I have finished this novel, I can truthfully say that I enjoyed this book (although that would not have been the case if someone asked while I was reading it). Yes, most of the first “book” was painfully dry and there were tedious parts throughout the novel; however, the relationships between the characters kept me rapt in the plot. Eustacia was my favorite character. Unlike many, I believe that her intentions were good and that she, like all of the main characters save Diggory Venn, was the cruel victim of fate. Her actions were self-centered but not evil. For instance, upon realizing that Clym’s intended life was the polar opposite of what he had made her believe their future would be like when she agreed to marry him, Eustacia began seeing Wildeve. However when she saw him, she was still loyal to her husband and never did anything wrong (the worst she did was escape from her prison, Egdon, and dance with him). Another example of how Eustacia was a victim of fate was “the closed door” incident. Had she known that her frivolous action would kill her mother-in-law, she would have surely opened the door. She was only trying to make the best decision possible given the predicament she was in; and, given the choice, I believe I would have done the same thing. Fate was what caused Eustacia’s demise, not her actions.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Hardy’s intended ending better suited his central theme: the power and cruelty of fate on man’s intention. The vast majority of the novel showed what little control people have over their actions and how negative consequences often result from these actions. It was unexpected that Hardy would create such a fairytale ending for such a tragic book.
Brendan Perra
Brendan, I really like your point of view of Eustacia. It brings up a different side of her that I hadn’t really thought of. She truly is a victim of fate. In some cases I think she aggravated her situation and made it worse. However when I look back on it, many of the causes of her situations can be attributed to fate. She still isn’t my favorite character, but it is interesting to look at her situation from another point of view.
ReplyDeleteTo Kaitlin F, I have to disagree with you when you say Damon is a strong character. I feel the complete opposite. Damon was never strong enough to commit to a woman. He thought he loved Thomasin, but found himself with feelings towards Eustacia when she was to be with another man. He wasn’t strong enough to realize that by trying to be with Eustacia would bring troubles and pain to his wife, as well as to Clym. As I said in a previous post, Damon Wildeve governed his actions by emotion and not reason. To me, this does not seem like a strong character, but rather someone who is weak.
I agree with Cristina (from a much earlier post) that Thomasin's happy ending provides a nice contrast for Clym's unfortunate one. I was at least happy that he became a preacher in the end and finally got to teach. Clym was one of my favorite characters, so of course I was sad that he lost everything and I don't think he really did anything wrong to deserve it. Clym was always willing and eager to help everyone in the community whenever they needed it. He was kind-hearted, generous, and would do anything for Thomasin, his mother, and Eustacia especially.
ReplyDeleteTaylor, I also wondered what would have happened if Clym stayed in Paris. I'm pretty sure life would have been better for him there. However, I don't think he would have wanted to redo it because he was able to help Thomasin, his mother, and meet Eustacia. But then again he might not have felt as much blame for his mother's and Eustacia's deaths if he stayed in Paris, so who knows...
Also, I did not think about Diggory Venn acting out of jealousy and not being so innocent until I read all of your posts. I liked Venn initially because he appeared as the big hero who helped everyone and got the girl in the end, but now I understand how you others felt. On the back of the book I have I don't really get why it says "he's like a red scourge of God." I suppose because he kind of popped out of no where when people needed saving or help.
Nina: I love the quotation you chose regarding Eustacia! That completely sums her up. I also like how you picked up on how sound was a very important aspect of the book. I did not observe that I guess. I believe the noises enhance the setting, perhaps the stillness of the heath, or maybe just demonstrate how some characters are going crazy? I also like how you, and others, mentioned how the novel begins and ends with a wedding. That is an excellent way for Hardy to close the story and make everything come full-circle.
Kayla, I thought you brought up some interesting points. Initially I thought Eustacia committed suicide, but I did not think of where she was heading to right before she drowned. It really does not make sense for her to kill herself when she was finally about to leave Egdon.
Jenna Lovett
I agree with Brendan that Eustacia's intentions were out of benefit for herself. She didn't think of who she was impacting when she made many of her decisions. I felt bad for Clym knowing that Eustacia had been sneaking off with Wildeve. Although it is farfetched to say that Eustacia was the cause of Clym's mother’s death, if it weren't for her infidelity, she wouldn't have ended up in that position. When Mrs. Yeobright was knocking at the door while Clym was asleep, if Eustacia wasn't so worried about her husband finding Wildeve she would have answered the door. She would have basically saved Mrs. Yeobright's life. As Brendan did, I also found that it was unexpected that such a happy ending resulted from a tragic story. After multiple deaths, I hardly believed that anything good was going to happen until Clym and Thamosin began getting closer and Thamosin married Diggory Venn.
ReplyDelete-Amanda Landry
I wondered if Eustacia's thoughts of suicide were provoked by her feelings towards Wildeve or by the argument she got into with Clym. I found that it seemed that Eustacia and Wildeve used their spouses as a replacement for one another. I had this thought when Eustacia stated how she needed to find another to love instead of Wildeve. This was when she went on the hunt for Clym.
ReplyDeleteJenna, I also thought that Eustacia had committed suicide since that was her thought when she saw the guns. I then realized that it would not make sense for her to do that when she had planned to leave Edgon. If they had left, was Wildeve planning to stay with Eustacia? or go home to Thamosin as if nothing had happened?
Amanda Landry
Amanda, I'd say that she was probably just feeling helpless about both things...a combination of thoughts of her unrequited love for Wildeve and the argument with Clem. I know if I had all that weighing on my mind, I'd be pretty miserable too. I think you're absolutely right about Eustacia and Wildeve using their marriages to fill a void. It's awful that she wasn't really at peace when she died. She didn't know that Wildeve cared for her, or that he died trying to save her.
ReplyDeleteEmily H- Thanks for posting the note about Hardy's intended ending! Now that I think about it, Thomasin and Venn's wedding didn't seem to fit the tone of the rest of the story. I agree that Venn's disappearing and Thomasin's remaining a widow would have suited the story better. However, I do like the actual ending better because it was a shred of happiness that contrasted with everyone else's misery and misfortune, and I was happy that Thomasin found someone who truly loved her. I also agree with you when you said that Wildeve wasn't a strong character. I think if he had been a strong character then he would have committed to Thomasin and realized that nothing good could have come out of having feelings for Eustacia, though our heads can't always reason with our hearts.
ReplyDeleteI personally think that eustacia didn't commit suicide. I think her thoughts when she saw the guns were her just realizing the other path ( suicide) that she couldve taken and she was deciding wether or not she had made the right
ReplyDeletechoice.
Colton Bridge
You’re welcome Danielle! And I feel exactly the same way about the ending. It was inconsistent, but it was happy. I don’t think I would have liked it any way else.
ReplyDeleteAlso in response to Amanda, I am in agreement with Julia. Eustacia’s thoughts of suicide were a result of the way her life was playing out. She felt completely helpless in her situation. Eustacia had an overwhelming desire to lead a life of luxury. She wanted to see the world. She married Clym because she thought he would bring her that life. She was wrong, and felt stuck. She also realizes that she still has a connection to Wildeve. To top it all off, she doesn’t open the door for Mrs. Yeobright, and indirectly causes her death. Clym thinks that the death of his mother is his own fault, and he is miserable. All of these things cause Eustacia to be under a huge amount of emotional stress. I feel that when she is looking at the pistols, she is looking for a solution to what she sees as a hopeless situation.
As much as I would like to say that Eustacia killed herself, I have to agree with Colton. If Eustacia killed herself it would make much more sense than if she did not. I think Colton is correct when he says that Eustacia was staring at the pistols because she was simply pondering another path she could take. But I think that Eustacia values her dreams and aspirations too much to kill herself.
ReplyDeleteJeff Gilcreast
Ugh. I would not be exaggerating if I said I fell asleep twice while reading this novel, because, I actually did. For lack of a better word, the purple prose, the piles and piles of purple prose, just, overwhelmingly, smother the rest of the story into boring submission (the 130 year difference doesn’t help either). It was like wading into the ocean to find the treasure at the bottom, only to, after all the effort, be disappointed with what the treasure chest holds; because after finishing Return of the Native, I truly was disappointed with the story. There’s intrigue, there’s (some) drama, there’s LOTS of walking, but, there’s nothing holding it together to weave it into a cohesive whole, nothing that leads me to believe the Return of the Native as a plausible story, nothing that I can really relate too. I can’t put my finger on the exact reason at this moment, but, the whole narrative just seems, “Wrong”.
ReplyDeleteThe horrific ending (Act 5, not 6), if I ever had a chance of coming round to thinking positively of Return of the Native – it was when I was actually looking forward to Eustacia’s escape from Egdon – did nothing to make change my feelings regarding the book either. Normally, I’m all for a non-happy ending, those don’t exist outside of Disney (or Act 6, apparently), if someone, or multiple people die, then I’m more I inclined to believe/be satisfied with the ending. That is not to say that I ever like the end of any story, I don’t, (since when do stories actually ever “end” ?), and Return of the Native did nothing to change my opinion. That final dark and stormy night on Egdon Heath proved to be just as confusing to the peoples inhabiting it as it was to me. Only after rereading the events on the Bridge for a third time did I have a clear image of what had occurred. Eustacia, for all her centrality to the plot, was walking along the roadside, occupied in her internal storm of emotions, and then, dead? Perhaps I missed a crucial line by Hardy, but to weakly imply her death, and only confirm it after Wildeve’s, was a jarring change of pace from mounds of text describing every little detail, and, as I have mentioned, only served to confuse my attempts to understand what had occurred, and that, is not a satisfyingly good ending.
A quick comment on Diggory Venn: The saying goes that the “Road to Hell was paved with Good Intentions.” ;)
I think that the general controversy over the character of Eustacia really helped everyone to form opinions about the book. To me she seemed like a vital character in more than just the role that she played in the book. Most people appear to have been impacted in the thoughts about certain couples and events based on Eustacia's role in them. She just seems like a very central character that can be judged in about a million different ways. Nearly everyone who's written about her here seems to view her a little differently. I feel that whether you loved her, hated her, or really had no clue which, she greatly influenced how you read and responded to the story.
ReplyDeleteI would have to completely agree with Hovey. Regardless of the rest of the classes's reaction to book I believe wholeheartedly this was a sour excuse for classic prose. Perhaps beyond my level of intellect but some of the imagery and metaphoric tongue used in the novel eithe literally made no sense or was unquestionably ill-relate-able that it seemed a waste of time. The irony of it all is the multitude of character development laid out as foundation for characters Wildeve, Eustacia, and Clym...did not support the end of the story! All of their indecisiveness apparently was concluded when Wildeve took up his venture to Paris with Eustacia, and Clym--who fought throughout the book for the 'love of his life', doesn't seem to give Eustacia's death too much thought. Also, even the flow of the piece was repeatedly interrupted, from rough streams of dialogue to endless courses of boring imagery. To top it all of, 75% of the major action in the story took place in one act, in one night. Honestly, I don't seem how Hardy received so much praise. However, aside from critique, my main levels of interest was in fact, how Diggory Venn would mold himself in the end of the story and also the emotional development of Clym after both his mother and lover's deaths. It kind of confused me that Clym, (while still under the broad wing of marriage) was determined to live a labor-intensive lifestly (fernze-cutter I believe?) and then went on to become an inexperienced spiritual preacher. It would seem that lingering on the definition of life and sin would somewhat impede his recovery from the two tragedies of his life...nonetheless, the far-fetched ending was remotely interesting. Oh, I also have a question for those that are willing to answer: how did Damon Wildeve receive his money again? I thought Thomasin's was by inheritance but I couldn't recall how Wildeve got all those bank notes...possbly as a result from that whole gambling episode? If any of you know, greatly appreciated. Okay, that's my two cents on the story, hopefully the required reading this semester will be more enjoyable!
ReplyDeleteAmanda, I think Wildeve would have stayed with Eustacia if they both survived and ran away. He was so infatuated with her, and not in love with Thomasin, that he probably would have convinced her to let him stay. I don't think it would have taken much convincing either because she was pretty crazy about him too.
ReplyDeleteJosh, I believe Wildeve's earnings were surprise inheritance from his uncle dying.
I also forgot to mention something earlier...
When I put this book on hold at the library they mistakenly reserved the audio version for me. I took it but also got a written copy and tried reading along as I listened to it on a long car ride to Michigan. Listening to it really helped me understand the first book with all the description. Once I could comprehend that part it was easier to start reading the rest, and I didn't use the CDs anymore. Often times when I'm reading I find I don't understand what I just read. If anyone ever has to read another book similar to this one with a dense beginning, I highly recommend getting it on CD if you can. I guess it depends whether you are a visual learner or listener, but for me it helped a lot to have two methods of learning the story.
Jenna Lovett
I agree with Brendan about how reading the book was almost torture, but now that I'm done I can look back and enjoy the love triangles and circumstances of fate that occur throughout the novel.
ReplyDeleteI also agree with many of you about how I don't think that Eustacia killed herself. I think that she was excited to finally be getting out of Egdon Heath. Although I didn't like her or her actions, I felt bad for her because I felt like she was really miserable in Edgon Heath and she wanted so much more for herself. Even though she took advantage of Clym and others, she was doing it because she really wanted to get out of Egdon Heath, so I felt bad for her sometimes.
I agree Brendan and Michelle! It was torture reading it. It felt as if it would never end but looking back on it now, it was a great book. My college counselor asked me what books I had to read for summer reading this year. When I told her "The Return of the Native" was one of the books I was required to read, she stated that it was a "classic." To me, that was pretty hard to believe but I figured that if it was refered to as a classic, It must be pretty good. Despite the length, it was a great read.
ReplyDeleteAmanda Landry
I just wanted to talk a bit more about some of the characters...
ReplyDeleteI felt badly for Thomasin a lot throughout the novel, but also wanted her to stick up for herself at the same time. At first when I started reading I thought she was going to be the main character. To me, Thomasin is a pretty, petite woman who is vulnerable and settles for what she can get. Toward the beginning of the book, I wanted her to marry Diggory Venn so she could live a happy, healthy life.
I really did not care for Eustacia's and Wildeve's personalities. Jess, I really like what you said about her, regarding her marraige with Clym and romance with Wildeve. I thought Eustacia was annoying, bipolar, conceited, controlling, and spoiled, no offense. When something wasn't going her way it seemed like she would just have a fit and complain about the heath. She was also extremely pessimistic at times. While reading the novel, I felt that she fears the unknown and uncertain, and thinks that love will not last. At one moment Wildeve and Eustacia would be professing their love to each other, and the next Eustacia would suddenly turn angry and claim he did not love her. I also did not like her because she married Clym basically just because he had a lot of money and she wanted to go to Paris.
At first I thought Wildeve was kind of a rough, emotionless, indifferent man who didn't really care about others. Later I learned that he was also ill-tempered and controlling, especially with money. The only person he truly cared about was Eustacia, and possibly himself.
I didn't really understand the part with Susan Nunsuch hating Eustacia, pricking her in church and doing voodoo on her. Nina, I like what you said about this part. Your post was extremely entertaining to read! Was this part added to further prove that Eustacia was a bad person? I didn't really get how that contributed to the mix.
I think the story might have flown better if some of the heath cropper parts were removed. Some of the scenes with Humphrey, Fairway, and other unimportant characters at the bonfire didn't seem relevant to me and were slightly confusing. I know this enhances the setting and imagery, but I would be happy with just the main scenes and the major characters.
Jenna Lovett
Also, I was curious why Thomasin would name her baby Eustacia. Any thoughts?
ReplyDeleteJenna Lovett
This book was no doubt a soap opera. But lets be honest here, if it didn’t have this twisted story of love and hate and jealously, it wouldn’t have been as interesting. Because this book was a soap opera, it is was actually, kind of readable. I did find this very long, and very dense. I believe it would have been more enjoyable if it was shorter. Not just because it would be shorter and faster to read, but it would have been easier to fallow. I agree with Ben and how it seems like the author just threw in random ideas that had no point to the plot. I enjoy details in books. It actually helps me fallow the story and get the correct picture and ideas. But this play just had pointless details and descriptions. The story had no benefits from them. It just made it painful and ruined the real story hidden by the long descriptions. And in the soap opera way, I loved the connection between the characters. There were webs of relationships between them, and you had to keep reading to understand them. I also think that Eustacia did kill herself. I don’t see how it could have been an accident. Even though she was a strong character, I belived she could have killed herself as the outcome of what she did.
ReplyDeleteVenn to me, was a good person. He loved Thomasin and did anything to make her happy. I don’t really understand how people got a different impression for him. He only seemed to help Thomasin and protected her throughout the story. I guess I just missed the evidence in the pointless descriptions and details.
Jeff, Ben, Kaitlin: I fully agree with the comment about Eustacia and Wildeve. There was no reason for killing them. The story could have continued with both of them.
Kristin: you mentioned that you noticed that the author made his way through the different characters. I didn’t relies this till I read your comment. But after I did, I appreciate the flow the author made between the information of characters. Thought out the story you got information about every one, and you learn it at the right moments.
Emily: I also didn’t know about the different ending. Thanks for commenting about it! And as other people have commented about it, I agree that it fits the story better then the ending we got.
Josh: I didn’t think twice about Wildeve’s inherence till you mentioned it. I just accept what I read. But you are totally right! It does seem suspicious. If Wildeve really did love Eustacia, wouldn’t he do anything to finally win her over? And it he just happens to gain a lot of money when Eustacia is becoming unhappy with her husband… I am fully pondering this action now...
I agree with Jenna's question, why would Thomasin name her baby Eustacia?
One thing I secretly love about books are the chapters titles. And when an author gets them right, you just ask so many questions and you have to read to figure them out. And I loved these titles in this book. They give you a sense of what was going to happen, but they still left you empty and you just have to read on! Come on, if you read “Those Who Are Found Where There is Said to be Nobody”, “The Dishonesty of An Honest Woman”, “A Coalition Between Beauty and Oddness”, or “An Hour of Bliss and Many Hours of Sadness”, you would just have to continue. I know this fascination about chapter titles is a little weird, but this factor is one of the reasons why I wanted to read on. It kept me looking for more. Don’t get me wrong, I didn’t want to jump in and get the reading done, (still a boring, long book), but the titles helped me to continue and gave me little hope.
Oh, I guess i should mention that I did end up enjoying this book. More then I expected. And as someone mentioned to me; the longer I have finshed this book, the more I really do appreciate it.
ReplyDeleteAfter finishing this book, I am feeling neutral about it. Though it had a good story line, the book was just too long.
ReplyDeleteI found that everything dragged on and on and it takes 5 whole pages to get to one point. There were also a lot of unnesessary things written about. This usually would be at the beginning of a chapter where something random is talked about. I also felt that the author included way too many Greek, Roman, and biblical references so I could rarely understand what was being compared or talked about. Yes, I did look up a few, but it became difficult to stop so often and go look up on the reference made. I agree with Matt Shanks, I don’t like how the name of the chapters/sections gave away the entire section. A couple examples are:
Thomasin- From the very beginning I found Thomasin to be a weak person. Not physically, but mentally. She gave up the second her and Wildeve's marriage license was revoked and she never went to go see him again. In general, I just had the feeling she was not strong. Thomasin seemed like a girl, acting like a child.
Eustacia- At the beginning of the book, I really liked her, she seemed like the complete opposite of Thomasin; strong (mentally) , womanly. Though I liked her at first, by the end of the story, she was stupid and it made me change my original feelings. Why can't she be happy with what she has and the fact that she decides to run away at night during a storm is just really clueless of her. I also find her to be immature. She may be like this because she is a very beautiful woman and she's used to everyone bowing down to her and doing what she wants, so when Mrs. Yeobright and Eustacia got into A fight, she couldn’t act mature about the argument. She also should not have been trying to sneak Wildeve out of the house when Mrs. Yeobright came over. It made Eustacia look like she was trying to hide him. She shouldn’t have hid him because it looks suspicious and her husband was home so it wouldn’t have looked bad on her part. I just find her to act very childish all the time.
I feel like after reading so many pages, I barely gather anything. I don’t remember everything that I have read. The book was not that great until the last 30 or so pages when it actually started to pick up. Again, I feel like there was so much written, yet I only walk away with a few things being remembered. “Return of the Native,” takes place over a year and I feel like it has been a year. I don’t know how to explain it, but I forget what has happened and then I remember, even though I had just read what happened a few days ago. It's like an “oh yea” moment.
Apparently you can only post so much at a time:
ReplyDeleteIt seemed that if anything could go wrong, it would. No one was ever getting lucky, meaning one was always is losing, fighting, or dying! I feel bad for all of the characters because they all have to go through a hardship and just barely pull through (example: Clym’s mother dies, Thomasin can’t get married and everyone thinks that she has been jilted, etc.). I also hate that Eustacia and Wildeve die together. I never wanted them to end up together and now they die at the same time and will be together forever in the afterlife. I know that sounds bad, but one of them was always causing problems in the other’s marriage or family, so why do they deserve to be together? I am happy that Thomasin and Venn got married, but I feel bad for Venn because now that he is no longer the color red or a reddleman, more people take interest in him. His personality has never changed or his character, just because he is now “normal” people shouldn’t treat him like he’s all of a sudden way better than he was.
I never thought about the possibility that Eustacia drowned herself. I think she accidently fell In the water and the current was too strong for her to swim. I agree with Cristina that Eustacia was going to run away and live the life she always wanted, so why would she give that up?
In the time this book was written, it was the late 1800s. It was common for cousins to marry cousins and sometimes brothers and sisters to marry. It is a weird thing to hear these days, but back then, it was completely normal. If Thomasin and Clym did marry, Clym would never be alone like he is at the end of the book. I guess that can be one way of looking at it positively.
Matthew S. – I agree with everything you have to say, especially in regards to talking about Venn not being a sociopath.
Megan K.- I like how you broke down a different story line just because one thing changed. Who would have thought that Venn had such a big effect on the story?
Ben B.- I really like what you said about the book dragging on. I completely agree that it was almost a difficult task in opening and reading it and that the book could lose over 100 pages if there wasn’t so much description.
Matt H.- I like how you point out the fact that there is a ton of walking, Hardy always wrote about these long and boring walks. After the first few walks, I don’t think he needed to write about them 20 more times.
This novel made my brain hurt. For the first book, I sat with both the book and Google open, and looked up all of the words I didn't know. There were quite a few. A lot of them could be figured out through context (champagns, heath) but a few were a little more diffcult (Ishmaelitish, furze). While the story could definitely still be understandable if I didn't know exactly what furze was, it adds another dimension of comprehension and makes the story that much more enjoyable.
ReplyDeleteI also found it interesting that the story started of Guy Fawkes Night, a fact I would not have picked up on but for the movie V for Vendetta. It's both the beginning of the story and the beginning of the end of the story. Wildeve visits Eustacia on Guy Fawkes Night a year later and offers to bring her to Paris.
I didn't really like Eustacia as a person. Like Danielle said, she's rather selfish and a little manipulative. However, as a character, she's absolutely fascinating. A beautiful outsider roaming the heath with a telescope and and hourglass looking for love certainly paints an interesting picture.
And Emily H, thank you for that note about the ending. While it would have been more fitting and consistent for Diggory and Thomasin to remain alone, I'm glad that someone got a happy ending. All of this death and loneliness was headed for a rather Macbeth-like ending.
I have to agree with you Becky, I loved the chapter titles! Yes this book was slow, but when you reached a new chapter the title pulled you back into the story and sparked your interest.
ReplyDeleteI already said that I liked the happy ending, but I do agree that the ending Hardy intended would have fitted the story better.
And of course what is a blog post without mentioning Eustacia! I feel like Eustacia, while she was suffering from depression, created her own downfall. She had a life with someone who really loved her, and she didn't take advantage of that. She spent her time moping about what she didn't have instead of appreciating what she did have. I continue to believe that she did not kill herself when she drown, I think that the downward spiral she was on finally came to a tragic end. I liked what Alex said about Damon and Eustacia dying at the same time--I didn't want them together either! It seemed like the characters we 'loved to hate' ended up winning. However, I think that their stories were so intertwined that they had to end at the same time.
I completely agree with Katherine that Eustacia was responsible for all of her problems. I don't think she was a victim of fate at all. All of her problems can be traced back to decisions she made. Like Clym blaming her for his mother's death can be traced back to her sneaking around with Damon and lying to her husband. She created her own problems because of her selfishness and she didn't appreciate the fact that Clym loved her.
ReplyDeleteMegan Giangrande
While I was reading this book, I used Dictionary.com probably more than I used reading anyother book or reading anything for that matter. My opinion was that Eustacia thought too highly of herself and because she condescended on all of the other characters in the book it lead to consistent disappointment in the way events played out. The love affair between Eustacia and Wildeve was probably the most problamatic relationship in the entire story. Wildeve did not deserve Thomasin and if I were her I would have married Diggory the first time. Life would have been much smoother for both Diggory and for Wildeve if Thomasin was allowed to marry Venn in the first place. However I suppose the story would have been less interesting. I think that Eustacia also did not deserve Clym because of the way she minipulated him into loving her. Eustacia had her mind set on one thing when she married Clym, his money and his connections. She was willing to do anything to get to Paris and feel rich and sophisticated and did not care that she would ruin somebody else's life. I think Clym's mother was smart when she told her son that Eustacia was not a good choice and I respect her for telling her feeling to her son. However, as a mother she should have kept her relationship with her son stronger even if she didn't agree with his love life. It was frusterating to understand that Eustacia was the one responsible for ruining Clym and his mother's chance to be reconciled. Eustacia may have felt bad afterwards when Clym's mother died but if she hadn't died then Eustacia would have had no guilt. Eustacia should have just run away with Wildeve and Clym should have found somebody better for himself. As for Thomasin, I think she was the only character that got a shot at a happy ending by marrying Diggory.
ReplyDeleteMolly Guittare
This was my least favorite book. It was completley unrelatble. The book was in England, and the diction and words were too much for me.
ReplyDeleteThe most interesting part of the story revolved around Eustacia's love life. She wanted to marry Wildeve, because she could not have him, and she thought maybe he was better then the other men on the heath. Eustacia felt she was better than everybody and deserved more in her life so when Clym came along she knew he was the one for her. I personally think Eustacia never really loved him she loved the opportunity he posed. She knew he had strong credentials and figured if she married him she would get to move to Paris which she longed to do. I think the man she really loved was Wildeve but he was not an option. Eustacia was flighty she wanted Wildeve then switched to Clym when he came to town. Then once she realized that Wildeve was married and Clym could not provide the destination she desired she didn't know what to do. so in the end Eustacia ended up taking her own life.
I think Thomasin and Diggory Venn should have got together and stayed together from the very begging. They seemed happy with one another but Thomasin would not excpet this truth because she wanted Wildeve. But Wildeve did not love Thomasin the way Diggory Venn did, clearly by the way he was sneaking around with Eustacia.
I also think that Eustacia was selfish and would never let herself be happy. No matter her situation in life Eusatcia had to make the worst of it and she would not just make the most of life.
Erin Guittare (Twin #2)